Bagshot Heath

The borough of which Bagshot forms a part (the borough also includes Camberley, Frimley, Windlesham, and Lightwater among other places) is justifiably called "Surrey Heath".  Here we have two views within the Bagshot parish.  The first is classic local heath with heather on a sandy soil - and equally classic are the encroaching silver birch trees trees and sometimes fir trees.  This particular picture was taken towards the NW corner of the parish.

heath land

The trees are a real problem for they change the habitat and deprive butterflies and other fauna of their natural environment. Fir trees are an even bigger problem for they kill off everything under their canopy and the acid in their fallen needles even changes the very composition of the soil.  From time to time volunteer "conservation work parties" help - at first sight it seems odd that the prime activity is rooting out and burning trees, but that is the only way to preserve the original habitat once trees have become established. Elsewhere in Surrey I have known controlled grazing of heathland to be reintroduced in order to maintain the traditional plant growth..

Areas of the heath also suffer from illegal off-road driving.  The Heathland Conservation Society has been established in order to apply pressure and provide practical action to prevent further damage and to reverse the damage done in the past. This link to should take you to an aerial photo of part of the heath. These images were taken about 2000 and the white scaring is all due to off-road riding. Since then such activity has become illegal, and although the damage is recovering, people still flout the law.

The heath extends on both sides of the A30 to the west of Bagshot. On old maps "Bagshot Heath" is marked predominantly to the southwest on what is now called Lightwater Country Park with the area to the northwest being marked in much small writing. Over time that has changed with the north side of the A30 having the predominant name until now the area south of the A30 is seldom described as Bagshot Heath.

Ron writes:

When I was a child in the war years, the Common started where Lightwater "The Close" road and houses are now. Then the timber firm  "Montigue Mayer" built a sawmills and fenced an area of appox 400 x 400 yards off.  You could walk a path beside that fence to the rear of the Lightwater cemetery to join a track at the top of the Avenue, which divided to go to High Curly hill or to the lake.

Various smaller tracks led to the water tower area, where many chestnut trees grew.

The common from the top of High Curly was used by the Army, mostly for Brengun carriers (small tracked vehicles) and we kids would wave them to stop and give us a ride. Great fun but very bumpy ride.

The common extended from Red Road to Waterers nursery (A30) and to the Deepcut to Jolly Farmer road (the Maultway). The heath land would catch fire most years and the fire service would draw water from the lake, sometimes emptying it to expose the foundations of a house under the lake. ref 612.0206

David Kell writes:  

I remember as a boy going up to Bagshot Heath to watch motorbike scrambles - they used to be on Saturdays and Sundays. Before that they used to test tanks up there. The bike track was very long stretching from the water tower right over to Curly Hill .

I also used to do a paper round for Mr Lewis at Lighwater right up as far as Curly Hill and starting in the Guildford Road by the shop which was at the other end of the village. About 250 papers used to take from about 6 in the morning till about 10 o'clock. I had to balance them on the handle bars as there were so many. I have got lots of memories about Lightwater and Bagshot to many to put down but I do rember the highlight of the year in Lightwater was a day trip to Bogner with the Working Men's Club. About 8 coaches used to go - we allways stopped at Bury Hill where crates of liquid refreshment was drunk by our dads!

Below is an area of mature deciduous woodland just south of the A30. Travel a little further south and it again becomes open heathland.

woods

continue tour | tour index

Common or Crown land?

One of my correspondents, Richard, writes: I was distinctly under the impression, back in the mid 50's when I lived in Bagshot, that when we used to go and chop our Christmas trees down on Bagshot Heath that we were on 'Common' land in the Doomsday Book sense of the word - and that it was free land to be enjoyed by all. I see to my horror now that there has been a gradual encroachment of gates on the pathways leading from Vicarage Road the newest one now being right at the very start of the dirt road. Anyone know the exact status of the heath? Or does the logging company money speak louder than the ancient rights of the 'commoner'?

Alan, a former Bagshot resident, replied: Bagshot Heath was always known as common land - called Poors Allotments by my family and had a group of Trustees - what has happened to this? We always roamed the heath as children in the 50s and 60s. I know there was a big uproar when the GPO tower was planned and people saw this as taking common land away

I was told the land had been left to the people of Bagshot in perpetuity - I wonder who administers the land now ? Crown land was always fenced off . The Camberley site talks of the land being included with Old Dean Common now.

June Green, chairman, Windlesham United Charities and Poors Allotments writes : I can clear up the confusion about Poors Allotments. It is NOT common land but privately owned charity land. The site covers about 180 acres and is a fish-shaped area sandwiched between the Crown Estate to the east and the MoD land to the west. If you look at the OS map you will see the fish shape, aligned northwest-southeast, with the tail of the fish to the north (including the reservoir) and the "mouth" to the southwest (the BT tower forms an "eye" for the fish) bordering the unmade section of College Ride. This land was set aside under the Enclosure Awards in the early 1800s to allow poor people in the old ecclesiastical parish of Windlesham (which includes Lightwater and Bagshot as well as Windlesham) to go there and gather fuel (bracken, turves). Those rights still exist.

The land is administered by the Trustees of Poors Allotments and today the Trustees use income from past land sales, which has been invested, to distribute winter fuel grants to people in Bagshot, Windlesham and Lightwater. Notices are put up in post offices inviting people to apply for fuel grants. The closing date for applications is usually October 31. Applicants must have lived in the parish for two years and grants are only given to people on low incomes. The Trustees also administer the James Butler Almshouses (on the Meade Court site) in Bagshot. Trustees are appointed by Windlesham Parish Council and serve a four-year term.

Any off-road motorcyclists reading this please note: You DO NOT have permission to ride on this land and face prosecution if you are caught. If anyone has any further questions about Poors Allotments please get in touch with me. To contact June Green please use the message pad below making it clear that you wish your message to be forwarded to her. 7028.307

There are residual fences in places, but the Crown land is now for the most part accessible. The whole area of more-or-less open country extends from Sandhurst across to the Bagshot Park estate and to the untutored eye it would be hard to discern just what is actually what.  

Heathland Conservation

David, a member of the Heathland Conservation Society (see above), has contributed this. ref 898.706

In answer  to the concerns about the site being "closed off" : this is purely to try to stop cars and motorbikes from entering the site. The whole area to Bracknell is open to ramblers and cyclists with a permit. The only exception is the land going down towards Sandhurst where military manoeuvres still take place. The Poors Allotment land which "belongs" to Bagshot is the 200 acres on the plateau South West of the observation tower. This is where the Heathland Conservation Society is working to restore the Heathland which once defined Bagshot. The land beside the continuation of College Ride and most of the forestry land belongs to the Crown Estate and the rest is army land. Hence the whole area has the following organisations with various responsibilities for differing parts;

Ideally the area should be designated as a Nature reserve with its own ranger supported by the council. The little we (the Conservation Society) do seems rather pathetic but important nevertheless

You may use the message pad below to add to this page.Advert is here

PoW camps on Old Dean Common & Cobham Common

The distinction between Bagshot Heath and Old Dean Common is unclear to me. A military historian writes: "Old Dean Common was the site of an instruction camp for the Free French Forces. There was also a WW2 Prisoner of War Camp for captured Germans. This may have been on the site with the French camp, replacing it once the training ended. Does anybody have any recollection of either of their exact locations - does anything remain of the camps - does anybody have any photos?" 7039.407
In later correspondence the correspondent identifies that the location given by English Heritage for the site is map ref SU 884 617  - now housing - and my conversations with locals confirms that  relics of the camp were finally razed in the building of the housing estate.

Gordon, now living in Australia, wites : As a young lad I lived in the WW2 POW army camp about 1948 as sqatters for a few years with my parents and grandparents . Does anybody else remember anything form this or may be some photos? 7070.907
However the location Gordon describes is on the edge of Chobham Common

James Legge:  There was a prisoner camp on the edge of Chobham Common . My parents lived there until the mid 1950's 7083/1207

I have been able to identify the location given by Gordon and James. It is the edge of Chobham Common, not Old Dean, and  was presumably a different facility. Many years ago I used to drive along Chertsey Road to work and I recall that there were some concrete areas leading off the road, but becoming overgrown. I assumed that they were left over from old war-time activities and I did not investigate any further. Much more recently I set out to see if I could find any remains, given that there is now nothing visible from the road. I found places which were concrete covered by a few inches of accumulated leaf mould, and the remains of some footings, a water tank and a derelict inspection pit. Now all overgrown, mostly by silver birch trees.

Of the Chobham Common site Frank writes "My Father was a POW at the camp in Chobham. It was sited off the Windlesham Road just across from the Convent of The Good Shepherd. According to my Dad the POWs used to pinch the Nuns' chickens and eat them in the camp."  8044.708

and Gerry adds "I remember a nissan hut the side of road opposite the entrance to Brick Hill. I had a school friend called Arthur who lived there with his mum. About 100yds towards the roundabout used to be a water tower which I did manage to part climb up as a lad probably 1954-1960" 8016.808

and from Ron Frost "About 1947/8 there was a look-out tower in the heathland opposite where the road from Valley End meets the Chertsey road. It was about 100/120 feet high. As children we would walk from Lightwater to the tower, climb it and throw parachutes or model aeroplanes from the top. Great fun.Maybe that is the concrete foundations someone has mentioned." 612.908

From Janice " When I was a small child, 3 yrs old perhaps and living in the London Road, Camberley (where Georgian Close is now) My mother would take me accross the road and up a hill covered with bracken and pine trees to a POW camp, somewhere the Old Dean estate is. The POW's would decorate the trees with silver paper. My mother would throw cigarettes over the high fence to them and in return they made me toys - a rocking horse and dolls pram, I still have the pram!"

But this still leaves us trying to find out any memories of the camp on Old Dean.

Habitation and Industry on the Common

Writing of the 1960's Mark says : "We used to play on Bagshot Heath and there was a place called 'Granny Coles' a little tree lined dell with an old apple tree; perhaps once a habitation. Does anyone know anything about the history of Granny Coles?"

Alan adds: I have never been able to find out anything about Granny Coles.  I too used to play on the the site in the 50s and 60s, I am surprised no-one seems to have heard of her. My mother did say, however that she was bitten by an adder. The adjacent hill was known as Clarkes Hill after a one-armed soldier who lived in a hut there. There was also a site nearby known as Granny Baine's. A small community obviously lived there, maybe poor people.

I recall once seeing a photo from the local museum of a shack on the heath, I think it was described as a dwelling of a tinker or perhaps broom cutter. This would have been very early 1900's. So perhaps Alan has pointed us in the right direction and these names originated with people who once lived on the heath and then hung on in the folk lore of the local children long after the people died and the dwellings disappeared.

Eleanor cleared up the Granny Coles mystery for us: My husband's great grandmother was Granny Coles and she and her husband, who was a broom maker, lived on the heath for many years. Information and photographs can be found in the museum in Camberley and the staff can tell you all about this family. 7012.207
Mary Bennett (until recently assistant curator in the museum in Camberley) has written a book with the title, Life and Work on Surrey Heath published by Phillimore. 608

Eleanor adds :  I am interested in tracing any descendants of William and Mary Cole who resided on the Poors Allotment. My husband is grandson of the youngest member of this family Charles Edward Cole. Charles had one brother William and several sisters. The eldest sister was Elizabeth who became Mrs Searle and had a daughter Sarah Ann. Other sisters were named Ann, Sarah, Rose, Jane and Selina. Sarah married John Page 7/1/1882 and Selina married John Taylor 14/5/1882. Does anyone know about any of these please?.607

Sue writes that in  the 1881 Census Joseph Grainger and his family are recorded as dwelling at Poors Allotment, Windlesham. Joseph gives his occupation as a Master Chimney Sweep. 7042.407

June confirms that there are photographs of broom dashers' cottages in Surrey Heath Museum. There were several families living on the allotments, and the trustees were charging them rent, but the only family whose name is known to the present trustees are the Coles. There is also a lovely photograph of two rather grubby Bagshot ladies in Surrey Heath Museum who were chimney sweeps. One of them I think was named Tot and I believe they were sisters. I wonder if they could they be related to the Grainger family? 7028.407

questions & answers index page

Many of my pages have been prompted by, or include questions or information from, my readers. If you can add anything to the above please write to me using the message pad below.

This page is part of the Bagshot village web site.

© Copyright | privacy policy

Data provided only for personal background information. While every effort has been made to provide correct information no assurance as to its accuracy is given or implied. Check any facts you wish to rely upon.